Spirithorses schreef op zaterdag 28 januari 2006, 9:47:


Hooi blijft niet lang in de maag, stroomt snel door naar de darmen. Krachtvoer daarentegen moet in de maag door de maagsappen voorverteerd worden en blijft daarvoor veel langer in de maag.

Ik kom net van mijn wei. Ik wou Tempête longeren en ze stond mank. Wel heel toevallig natuurlijk!
Vanmorgen had ik mijn paarden al eens bekeken op zoek naar eventuele verwondingen. En toen leken ze ok. Maar ze stonden toen wel stil te eten.
Maar toen ik haar daarnet zag lopen, jeezes echt miserabel.
T'is wel heel moeilijk om dit los te zien van die hond.

Ans

Kijk ook eens bij Horse Trade Union en dan klikken op 'horrible sportfoto's' oid. TE erge foto's van bitleed onder het mom van sport.

Kijk ook eens bij Horse Trade Union en dan klikken op 'horrible sportfoto's' oid. TE erge foto's van bitleed onder het mom van sport.

Het klinkt alsof er daar misschien vossen zitten, je had het ook over reeën. Ze zullen geen paard pakken, maar ze ruiken naar roofdier en gaan 's nachts op pad. Informeer eens bij de boswachter?

Het klinkt alsof er daar misschien vossen zitten, je had het ook over reeën. Ze zullen geen paard pakken, maar ze ruiken naar roofdier en gaan 's nachts op pad. Informeer eens bij de boswachter?

Christel Provaas schreef op dinsdag 31 januari 2006, 17:43:


Ja idd! Iemand had op bokt.nl (vast wel bekend bij sommigen) wat foto's laten zin van NH en had daarbij een speciaal soort optoming, iedereen zat echt werkelijk te zeuren (netjes uitgedrukt) dat dat gevaarlijk was, vooral als een paard viel ofzo,, dan ehbben ze deze foto's nog niet gezien. Het raakte me echt!

Het doet me plezier dat er toch wel enig enthousiame is, buiten HC om die al tijden lang zijn best doet. Ik zal aan meneer Nevzorov vragen of ik een stukje film mag laten zien - de hele film staat in stukjes online (en op mijn HD) maar slechts bedoeld voor de leden van het gesloten forum (invites only) zover ik begrepen heb.

Boodschap nr. 1 is echter: stop jullie bitten én de mentaliteit die daarbij hoort waar ze horen - begin er samen met de verzameling hoefijzers een museum mee ofzo! Je gaat met je dieren om op voet van gelijkheid, of niet!

"Nevzorov" is zoals het nu ligt te hoog gegrepen. (OK, dat is zoals ik dit forum, dat ik het beste acht in NL, in schat ). Maar ik zal voor de duidelijkheid iets knippen en plakken:

" Getting started
Walking the path of the School, you have to consciously understand, that you agree with the fact, that the horse is always right.
And the next thing is really important: by bringing up one horse, you are actually educating two horses: her mind (soul, if you like), and her myoligical device .
So you have to conquest her soul, and the horses myology is your main enemy, and your horses main ally. The horse will first always listen to it, and then to you. Then, if you can`t use the rules, written before with maximum exactness, you will find that enemy, which our School cant handle with (the horse will be absolutely right with the fact, it doesnt want to do, what you want it to).
First of all, you need to "get down to the earth", in all meanings, working only on the ground or with a rope. That's why:
You must always remember, that the horse always understands, it's you that can't explain or be clear. And your main aim is learn how to be clear. It's able only on the ground, in the condition, when you and the horse are equal. Forget about being a leader, about you are a human, and it is a horse. You are both living creatures, and you must become understandable for that other creature. And you should forget forever everything that is known anywhere. All this knowledge leads you to a deadlock: a deadlock of relationship, a deadlock of intercouse (you just dont have it), and the deadlock of a few elements. The horse will never listen to you only for you are a human, even though you keep it and feed it. It won't happen. You have to donate your proud and self-opinion and to let the horse choose whether it's to be with you or not. It`s very important to remember, that a horse is not a projectile and not an entertainment. You cant go for a ride on it. Well, if you want to, so do. But then you don't need to ask questions like: "how can I ride bitless in the fields, if i wont be able to stop the horse?" . There s no way. Use a bit. Its your choice. When the horse is unstoppable, it tries to run from the rider, by her instinct. It means that the horse doesnt pick you. And we can`t help you here.
Now we'll return to the health and pain. With an unskillful ride (without a collection definitely and with a bad seat) you hurt the horses back. It causes an unstoppable pain. And if you have pain, you can't have relationship. Even more-what for do you need to ride a horse , before you explained to the horse what you want. (all the explanations are made on the ground) It makes sence to sit on the horse only after it collects in the freedom. (or you can sit for 2-3 minuts to work on the Spanish walk from above). Even more-if you are trying (or riding) to ride with a forced collection, there is a HUGE possibility that the horse won't do natural collection, because of the pain you cause or caused. And dont think: why should I get down, if somebody else is riding it anyway. Excuse me, but if you stop riding, the loading on the horses back would become about twice smaller.
About the fact, that a horse needs to move. Yes, it does. But from the two evils you have to pick the smallest. One of the most evil things is hurting the horses back with a bad saddle and a bad seat. Thats why you take a long rope (8-10 meters) and PLAY with the horse using it. You can`t just make the horse run in a stupid way (as it is accepted everywhere), you need to walk (or even better-run) in the smaller lap with the rope in your hands. That way you can make the rope almost twice bigger. This way the loading on the joints will become almost insignificant. I won`t repeat about the punishment: it`s very wild.
So, your task is to make relationship with your horse. Its the most important thing.
For the first step you distinguished the next tasks:
The horse shall not be scared of the whip in your hand. Its REALLY important, and it would become your first winning in your relationship. There wont be any relationship, until the horse would have no doubt that it won't be EVER hit. And the only thing you need to do for it, is to tell yourself once and forever that you can't ever hit it, in any way, any situation. The horse will understand it very soon and it would be the beginning of your relationship.
Teach it how to put its legs on the stand (besides that you will learn how to explain, you would develop its shoulders and preparing it for the Spanish walk).
teach the horse walking next to you (shoulder to shoulder), it doesnt depend on the direction and the speed (its the basis on the working in hands).
Teach the back crunch (the back legs are staying at their places and the front legs making few steps forward).

I am ready to answer all of your questions about the technical side of teaching of every point. The only request is not to repeat yourself and to start thinking"

LES 1: playing with the ball
"Please, carefully read "Getting started". The first thing you have to understand - you have a lot of time. You dont have to hurry. That's very important. I'll continue writing levels one by one, but you must remember, that you have to finish one level, before going to the next one.
So, I want to offer you a very simple game. Game with the ball(from volleyball ). You need to deflate it a bit so the horse will be able to take it with her teeth.
How to play: you throw the ball to the horse. It lifts the ball with the teeth and gives it back to you. This is an easy game, but it is very important in making friendship and starting the communication.
But!! You have to remember - your aim is to explain the horse what to do. Don't try to smear the ball with something tasty. The horse will just chew it but nothing else.
You can start from a short distance and then, slowly increasing to 20-30 metres"

LES 2: everything about the whip
LES 3: reverse pirouette on three legs.
LES 4: pirouette with front feet crossing.

Het is zeldzaam dat iemand op dit nivo - Luraschi, Knie, etc. - iets wil uitleggen!
Er wordt niet, zoals Parelli doet, stapje voor stapje, moronproof, uitgelegd hoe je alles in détail doen moet.
Ikzelf denk dat het niet gaat om Spaanse pas, of een pirouette whatsoever. Het gaat om een totaal andere benadering; je kunt ook Skinner lezen en de ethologische kennis uit Waring toepassen. Wie doet dat eigenlijk? Ik raad het al bijna 2 jaar aan hier....

Groeten, Egon

Van Lidia N.:

"Training rules I or “Getting Started”.

Would like to say couple of words about learning.

1. You will have to “dismount” your horse and work only on in hands until you will become completely sure that you have managed to completely learn everything from the work on the ground, in hands, that your horse trusts you completely, and you trust your horse completely too, and wont be afraid to ride her without a bride into fields.
Saying things like “how so, horse needs to moove, going into fields, forest etc” are simply cancelled, forbidden.

I’m confident that 99% of your horses are having problems with saddling and all sorts of pains.
Half a year or a year of groundwork by our programme will make your horse not only healthy, flexible and energetic and fun, but would heal all the wounds.

2. You will have to say big NO to your typical pleasures with horses. Serious work with horse means complete self-sacrifice. Sergey will explain in more detail.
No field rides!!! Field rides are fun for you, but NOT your horse. Your pleasure will be in creating relationship of happiness, trust and success between you and your horse.

3. You must understand the true nature of horses.
As a rule, everyone, including people involved in sport, simple horse lovers “communicate” only with the physiological part of horses. I.E. they are working on creating conditioned reflexes with help of a whip and a carrot.
We are communicating with the soul and the thinking part of horse.
All communication is based on understanding, NOT on conditioned reflexes.
They obviously exist and in humans too, but we try to minimise them to minimum, so that you understand me in a right manner.
Everything that horse does conches, before hand is “worked through” in their brain.
I would like to say here, that there are two things that have helped us to create our system. They are: the brilliance of A.G. and my knowledge of Hippology.
The thing is, that not every signal that goes through a body of a horse gets to the brain. For instance, signals from spur or a whip (stimulus), when we are creating conditioned reflexes only go as far as the spinal cord brain. There for there is no thinking, brain isn’t involved.
That is the way people work with horses in circus, sports, everywhere.
But we are trying to work in a way to activate the brain of our horses, so that they think through what they do, because it is very important.

4. Apart from brain, horse has a locomotion system (body).
If you have noticed, our horses are well muscled, very energetic.
Knowing the rules of physiology, I am planning the regimen of work correctly.
Just remember the following.
• Horse must not work hard for more than 15 minutes a day.
• If your horse doesn’t feel well or doesn’t want to work, don’t make your horse to work.
• You are not allowed to make your horse to do anything by forcing your horse.
• You are not allowed to make your horse do anything if your horse resists.
• You are not allowed to use artificial help aids that restrict your horse in any way.
• You are not allowed to collect your horse by forcing the collection. Only voluntary collection at liberty is permissible. Right now it is too early to talk about it but you wont get any results if your force your horse to collect. It will come, but on a later stage of learning.
• You are NOT ALLOWED TO PUNISH YOUR HORSE.
• NOT even ALLOWED to be ANGRY at your horse.
• You are not allowed to cause any pain to your horse.
• Not allowed to scream at your horse.
• You are not allowed to ask your horse something that is unreasonable. For example, to do a full lap, when you only learned to do 2 steps.
• Not allowed to lunge your horse more than 3 times a week, and not longer than 15 minutes each time.
• You are allowed to play, if you want, whole day long!
• Allowed to be friends, to communicate, to do something together.
• You must GROOM each other.
• You need to read out loud to your horse and sing songs.
• NOT ALOOWED to REPEAT any exercise more than 3 times a lesson.
• Not allowed to demonstrate impatience.

Remember: a horse is a very gentle and fragile creature.
Take a good care of your horse’s health.
Do not ask anything from your horse if your horse is kept in conditions that are like in campo de concentretion.
Because it’s hard to reach mutual understanding, when your horse is kept in such horrible conditions.
There won’t be any success if your horse is kept under stress.
In stress condition, the part of the brain that we call “the learning part” switches off and (read my articles which soon be translated into English).

Your study and work will be based on a special plan. Make sure that your horse is healthy, check teeth, hoof balance (wrote an article about it not long ago), check for worms, arrhythmia, irregular heartbeat and mood. Grease are for instance a serious barrier on the way to establishing a good relationship with your horse.

You will read about how much to work and aerobic in the next topic."

Groeten, Egon

e m kraak schreef op dinsdag 31 januari 2006, 18:37:


Hiermee wordt niet bedoeld dat je niet naar buiten mag; er wordt bedoeld dat je je paard niet als fiets gebruikt.


Hier ben ik over in discussie
Geen geconditioneerde reflexen, maar wel geconditioneerde responsen nmm.
Anders nml. geen communicatie.
Het verschil zit 'em in wel/geen cadaverdiscipline, en het bewust kiezen van je paard voor wat jij aan geeft.



Groeten, Egon

En verstoppingskolieken vaak weer juist in te weinig....

Ik heb het even gevolgd en begrijp van deze discussie dus helemaal niks.

Het lijkt me vanzelfsprekend dat als je je paard natuurlijk wilt houden er altijd water beschikbaar is, zodat het paard zelf kan bepalen wanneer hij drinkt (of een hele nacht niet drinkt).
En dan heb ik het er nog niet eens over dat dat misschien ook wel gewoon AARDIG is en een kleine moeite.

Is het noodzakelijk??? Nee, dat vast niet. Ze kunnen best 's nachts zonder water. Ze kunnen ook best 23 uur in een box staan.... er zijn paarden waar dat al jaaaaren goed bij gaat....

e m kraak schreef op dinsdag 31 januari 2006, 18:47:



Nou dan houd het hier op voor mij :)

Trea

Piet schreef op maandag 30 januari 2006, 20:11:


Helaas woon je een beetje ver bij mij vandaan!

Ik heb mij door de fabrikanten die bieten verwerken laten vertellen dat er in NL altijd relatief veel suiker in blijft zitten. Dus voor mijn pony met suikerziekte zou het geen goed idee zijn....

Christel Provaas schreef op dinsdag 31 januari 2006, 9:49:


Hebben jullie ook de foto's bekeken?
Ik voel de pijn in mijn buik en in mij hart.... Oh wat erg!